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INTRODUCTION, THE SWINGING LAURELS, by Lyric LaCeile
The Leicester scene has always been about total departure from the mainstream, and The Swinging Laurels is no exception, the music speaks for itself...'ist' being a contemporary band of brilliance is of that very departure, featuring both John Barrow and Gaz Birtles with Kenton Hall, whom we proudly featured last year. From the early years of John Barrow and Gaz Birtles’ rise to near-stardom, their talent was quite simply, genetic. You’re either born with the gift of music or you are trained, or self-taught. It is a handicap in my book when one isn’t either a descendant of musical brilliance, or at least, exposed to, all genres of great music from an early age. It makes an indelible and obvious imprint on the psyche of all aspiring artists.
In 1977 John Barrow joined funk band Black Gorilla scoring a top 30 hit enabling him to make his debut 'Top of the Pops appearance'. Touring extensively across Europe headlining top funk venues, the demise of Black Gorilla in 1980 enabled John to branch out a bit , guest appearing on releases by The Newmatics and The Sinatras and recorded a Sinatras’ ’live Radio One session for John Peel.
John Barrow founded The Swinging Laurels with college friend Gaz Birtles, featured in such bands as Wendy Tunes, the Newmatics and the Disco Zombies. Signing with Albion Records their debut release Peace of Mind reached No 1 slot in the embryonic independent charts. By 1982 the outfit gained national press attention building a solid reputation as session brass players. Weaving in jazz, pop, electronica, and a hint of avant-garde/experimental , ’The Swinging Laurels’ started out with a rather enviable bang. The late great John Peel, champion of the struggling yet ever-talented unknowns gave just that kind of dedication , much deserved, to The Swinging Laurels. Reaching number 1 on the U.K. independent charts with their first single 'Piece of Mind' (1981 Albion), the song, a pleasant mix of tenor/alto sax, vocals and percussion, defined and blueprinted their sound. In 1982 they signed with WEA Records and released the band’s first album, Rodeo, which hit the streets in September 1982 and featured the distinctive percussive influence of Scritti Politti drummer Tom, but despite saturation Radio One airplay, was restricted to lower reaches of the national chart and their second single 'Lonely Boy', produced by Culture Club ’s personal producer, Steve Levine, initially featured a vocal contribution by Boy George- but due to the contractual obligations of Boy’s record label, Virgin Records, the song was released unfortunately, without his vocals. BBC Radio Ones' DJ Janice Long and Gary Davies assured that the song received heavy rotation. Big biz got in the way as it is prone to do, as the single’s selling point was indeed Boy Georges' vocals, becoming a real bummer for the band, and a stall-out as well in terms of the progression of the band. Either way, in 1983 Boy George requested that the Swinging Laurels open for them on Culture Club's sold-out UK tours, strange how it all pans out! After leaving WEA Records the band formed their own label, released a few singles and fizzled out.
In May of 82' The Swinging Laurels returned to Top of The Pops, this time in tandem with Fun Boy Three. Miles Copeland, (father of Stuart Copeland, The Police's drummer)ran the now highly-esteemed U.S. record label IRS, who felt The Swinging Laurels were destined for great success, with a support tour of the U.S with Squeeze. The band’s publisher failed to make it happen, sloppy and thoughtless in contacting the band way too late to arrange the tour. Supporting great acts like The Clash, Bananarama. In 1988 Gaz and John were playing session sax with Food/Parlophone Records act Crazyhead, most notably on an eleven-nation tour of Europe and Scandinavia as special guests of godfather of punk Iggy Pop with a string of television appearances , radio play and many memorable gigs it would seem this brill band was ’cut off at the pass’ as we say in America…. As a line in a review on John Barrow’s fab diary/book, 'How Not To Make It in The Pop World' so aptly sums it up, 'If you have ever dreamed of being on Top of the Pops; been in a band; wanted to be in a band; lugged gear on a dark wet windy night for a band, this book is for you!'.
Both Gaz and John have gone on to greater things. Gaz played sax with the extremely popular and renowned band, The Beautiful South, booking bands for The Donkey venue and pursued his photography interests...' No Label Records’ reissued 'Push and Shove'. In 2000, 'Be Someone' was released by Internet label www.peoplesound.com . That same year John completed a highly successful UK/Irish tour with Baby Genius guest sax player with The Beautiful South. Baby Genius scored a prime time television appearance on BBC’s 'Children in Need' with bands 'Louise' and 'Atomic Kitten'. A 15-track Swinging Laurels compilation album 'Greatest Bits' was issued in 2001 with tracks recorded for an album released in 2002 by “The Charmers” entitled, 'Learning To Cope with Happiness'. In November 2002 a re-run of an earlier Top of the Pops’ appearance with 'Fun Boy Three' was shown on BBC 2's 'Top of the Pops 2' with both John and Gaz donating their time to the New Orleans Relief Fund, a charity formed by musicians for the disaster in New Orleans'.
The Swinging Laurels were:
INTERVIEW with John Barrow and Gaz Birtles by Lyric LaCeile, in process
Lyric: Welcome, to you both!!! What a tremendous pleasure to finally feature you, such prolific artists-John, your father Albert was a superb drummer-would you say that he influenced you early on to play an instrument, to pick up that first sax you played in 1974??
JOHN: Yes, without a doubt. There was always music in our household. Dad had an extensive collection of old 78rpm records and I never tired of listening to the likes of Little Richard, Frankie Lane and Elvis etc. Dad was a singer really and he plied his trade around the working men's clubs of the Midlands in the 50's. I remember seeing him perform in some of the smoky clubs when I was very small, he cut a dashing figure in his tuxedo and bow tie.
Lyric: We had quite similar childhoods, musically speaking. My earliest memory of my father was looking up from a baby basket next to the piano, at 'The Lighthouse', a famous jazz joint in Southern California, with him smiling at me in his full-on tux and bow tie!! Not to interrupt! Carry on.
JOHN: Yeah, the parallels in music are remarkable.
Lyric: I call it incestuous.
JOHN: My uncle, who was also a drummer, gave me an old drum kit of his when I was eight years old but I can only remember having it for a few weeks before it mysteriously vanished! Must have been spirited away in the dead of night by my desperate parents!!!!
Lyric: Drum kits have a rather inexplicable way of disappearing...Two-part question: What artist, and most of us love and are quite aware that The Beatles and Bowie are high up that list, can you pin down just one artist in particular who played the sax that first inspired YOU personally to pick up that sax and find the determination to learn a most difficult instrument? Additionally, a song that you can recall as a young man that first became a part and remained forever a part of your soul??
JOHN: Yes, without a doubt, it was Andy Mackay of Roxy Music. I went to see them at Leicester’s De Montfort Halls in 1972 just as the band had broken through with their first hit “Virginia Plain.” They were a magnetic revelation to me, I’d never seen anything like it and I was mesmerized by Mackay’s playing.
Lyric: You met Gaz early on when the two of you were gas fitting apprentices .You two grabbed a few lessons, realising that you on tenor and Gaz on alto, well, the chemistry was quite palpable...Tell us how Sister Big Stuff came round?
JOHN: Yeah we were 16 when we met. Gas fitting involved all aspects of gas appliance installation – cookers, central heating systems and parts etc. As apprentices you were partnered up with a mate who was a qualified fitter, while you learned the trade. One of the first things Gaz ever said to me was that he’d be famous one day – little did he know then that he'd play sax for the 'Beautiful South' for so many years. Sister Big Stuff were a local name, a 'soul and funk' covers outfit. My girlfriend saw a 'sax player wanted' advert in the local rag, the Leicester Mercury, and she applied for an audition for me without my knowledge, painful experience- I went to the audition and died a thousand deaths – I was terrible. I later found out that I only got the job because I was the only sax player that applied!
Lyric: Humiliation can give one inspiration, painful as it tis. I have an accolade here from popular English recording artist Kris Searle on 'The Beautiful South', he quotes: 'I love Beautiful South-Their songs are more like stories. They deal with everyday matters and make them sound even more important than what they are. But really they are. It's the type of music you can listen to when you are happy or when you are sad. If you're happy it will lift you higher. If you're sad it will console you and somehow offer solace and understanding. Very English and very cool!' Gaz, after reading comment after comment of similar reference on YouTube (you have at least 20 vids up) they all seem to concur. What do you feel was your deepest impact with audiences, fans, listeners whilst with The Beautiful South?
GAZ: From the very start of the Beautiful South (fresh from Paul and Dave’s bout with THE HOUSEMARTINS) the audiences were ’mad for it’! Obviously at the beginning it was Housemartins fans and a lot of 'lads'. I was always amazed even in the early days how much the words meant to most of the fans, the effect was mesmerising. The band never did all the usual route of being on the front of every magazine that asked them or every kids TV programme. This lent them credibility and their fans became ardent followers so you got the sense that most of them thought of the band as their own! Even after they had the 'Carry On Up The Charts' greatest hits out and we played the arenas, there was still a sense of the fans believing we were still relatively unknown to the masses.
Lyric: Tell us how Top of The Pops affected your blooming career, since there were not any saxophone parts and you had to do backing vocal duties...
JOHN: My first appearance on the program (Top of The Pops) was with 'Black Gorilla' who had a novelty hit called 'Gimme Dat Banana' in 1977. We trolled down to the BBC Television Centre in a beat up hired van. After checking in we were given a dressing room next to “Blue Peter’s” and I bumped into Arthur Lowe (Captain Mainwaring) from Dad’s Army in one of the labyrinthine corridors. I sat next to one of the 'Legs & Co' dancing girls in the make-up room. Also making their debut appearance were the 'Boomtown Rats', fronted by a youthful Bob Geldof! After the show, as we left the car park in our grotty transit van, an even shoddier vehicle cut across our path, causing us to brake sharply. Pressed against the passenger window was a bare backside. (translation: Mooning)The Boomtown Rats were leaving in style!
Lyric: Your feelings on the year 1977 and Response Records...
JOHN: 1977 was great – the punk movement was in full flow but I was stuck in a funk outfit that had been lumbered with a dodgy novelty hit.
Lyric: Gaz...on The Wendytunes... The band 'Raw Deal' describes you as new wave rivals of theirs, even compared to The Undertones by a Melody Maker review. Your brother Phil on drums and you on vocals and sax with occasional guest tenor sax player , none other than John.... Best memory of that band, that time?
GAZ: We had a great time with WENDY TUNES. It was my first band and it was 1977.
Lyric: Your first gig?
GAZ: Our first gig was at the LEICESTER POLYTECHNIC in December I think and it was at the time when the SEX PISTOLS were playing the country under the pseudonym 'SPOTS'. We were a last- minute addition to the full days’ gig and the poster announced 'SPECIAL GUESTS'. Everyone was anticipating the Pistols to turn up.! We went on and did 5 songs. My very first time on a stage and in front of 1200 drunken students! We went down like a lead balloon! Plastic glasses rained onto the stage! My brother, Phil, on drums, nearly got hit and shouted down his drum mics words to the effect of 'Stop that or I will be angry!' It was Baptism by fire!
Lyric: Ouch.
GAZ: We were probably the first band of that period in Leicester to get a record deal. We went to RAMPORT STUDIOS in Battersea, London to record an album. It was a converted church and owned by THE WHO!! Roger Daltrey came by once while we were recording! The album never got finished as we fell out with the label before I could get any vocals on.
Lyric: Still, what a stellar moment in musical history… John, please elaborate...'Low prices...Ladies pants are down!'
JOHN: Laurels trumpet player Dean Sargent had a little sideline. He ran a stall on Coalville market selling ladies pants. It was a subject Dean knew a lot about after spending most of his life trying to help girls out of them! Standing for long hours on that market stand and bored, Dean, for his own amusement invented sales pitches with double meanings...'Low prices...Ladies pants are down'...was just one of these. There are some that I can't tell you about!
Lyric: Priceless!!!...Gaz, John Peel said of The Swinging Laurels, '...One of those names to drop at cocktail parties'. Not only a tremendous compliment, but an enormous claim to the integrity of your music! What have you to say on behalf of Mr. Peel, of whom we are quite devoted to and fond of here at UK Artists 'LIVE'?
GAZ: A great man dedicated to the British music scene for most of his professional life up until his sad death….. I used to listen to his radio show at 6pm every night. I remember hearing PINK FLOYD’S MEDDLE played in its entirety one evening! He got me into Reggae, Punk, New Wave, New Romantics and all the other fashions that came by. A great loss but I’m glad I was part of his legacy - we recorded a John Peel Session at Maida Vale studios. We never got to meet him as a band, though. I met him at one point when he was doing a gig in Leicester and have a photo of him somewhere.
Lyric: John, elaborate on the simplicity of early signings/contracts in contrast to today’s endless control by the majors...do you feel you had more creative control then???
JOHN: I think that there is definitely more artistic control now. When 'Response Records' gave us our first contract – it was just put in front of us and they expected us to sign – we were all kids really and very green. The first 'Swinging Laurels' record deal with’ Dead Good Records’ was done on a hand shake! Musicians today are more clued up now and they know how the industry works, back then there were too many mysteries.
Lyric: No question, they have the edge and the advantage of reaching hundreds of millions of listeners, radio/tv/film execs via internet too, they have it a lot easier than you did, you’re part of the artists of the world who laid down the map, paved the way for the artists of today...So, give us some real dirt! What's a most memorable caper that you and Gaz embarked on once signed with WEA other than the 'KLAUS' story...(for those of you who have not yet read John's book, please do so or you will entirely miss out on a lot of vital information on the industry and of course, on John’s marvelous sense of humour including KLAUS, yes, this is a definitive 'teaser').
JOHN: When our first WEA single was about to hit the streets we racked our brains to come up with a quirky way to promote it – something that would cause a splash and get us lots of column inches in the press. We finally came up with the idea of a busking tour which involved us playing in various major cities, in shopping centres and outside chart return shops! In Oxford Street in London we played outside the HMV Megastore and came close to being arrested. As we played a policeman approached with arms flailing like a demented windmill and put a stop to our impromptu set. A sizeable crowd had gathered to see what the commotion was about and they had spilled out onto the road, blocking the traffic.
Lyric: There are a lot more wily stories in your book! Gaz, why didn't the The Disco Zombies do more gigs?
GAZ: THE DISCO ZOMBIES, like most of the young bands at the time, gigged mainly in Leicester but hey did play out a bit. I remember playing with them at their bass players hometown of Bath. I suppose the reality was that we were only together a year or so through the punk thing then (as was the case with the DZ) members left University and went their separate ways. DZ singer, Dave Henderson went on to become a successful journalist for SOUNDS - he even came on the road with us for few days on the ULTURE CLUB tour and gave us a 3 page feature. Its not what you know its WHO you know! He now writes for Q magazine and is high up on KERRANG I think. DZ guitarist ANDY ROSS became label owner of FOOD RECORDS (Blur, Crazyhead) so our paths crossed later on.
Lyric: Later down the road, you and John did a reunion of sorts for 'Return of the Seven' at the Abbey Park Festival in 1994. Fond memories?
JOHN: The Abbey Park Festival was a large annual summer festival held in Leicester. Gaz and I had done lots of 'cameo' session jobs with various bands down the years. 'Return of the Seven' were fronted by a guy called Nev Hunt who had featured in hit indie bands including, 'The Sinatras' and the 'Meteors'. The band played a brand of grungy rock, we did a bikers festival with them once too!
Lyric: Bikers? Aren't they just so colourful? ! Gaz, your recollections, in the haze of the moment?
GAZ: A great Local music festival which went on for 21 years then finally ruined and stopped by the local council. A real shame as it was the most sought- after gig of the year in Leicester! I can't remember much about the gig other than from the great photo that was taken of me and John dressed in borrowed leather jackets!! The band were good friends of ours and we socialised together at the only pub worth going in Leicester at the time, THE GLOBE.
Lyric: Gaz, how long have you been promoter , booking agent, and shooter of most interesting pictures at The Donkey Bar, how did that all happen?
GAZ: I’ve been promoting bands at THE DONKEY for just over 2 years now. The owner started having Jazz on Sunday afternoons and after getting acquainted with him I decided to hold my 50th birthday party there. I booked about 6 bands of old mates to come and play and it was a stunner! The place was rammed and I ended up not speaking to many of my guests all day as I was stage managing the acts all day with Warren observing a bit of a phenomena.
Lyric: So the owner, Warren, wanted you to do an acoustic night with all-original acts?.
GAZ: This night I called 'THE SONG CLUB' and it consisted of, initially, 8 acts a night (once a month) playing 3 songs each. I like to have an eclectic range of acts on each night so that people aren't bored. The Donkey is a venue is ideal - biggish square room, wooden floors and old wooden furniture, a small stage that Warren later had built, and a great little 3k PA-Feel free to check out the web cam one Sunday afternoon (between 3:30 - 6:00pm GMT) on www.thedonkey.co.uk)
Lyric: Gaz, we would love to hear some of the gear you have in your studio?
GAZ: Over the years I have had lots of different set ups in my studio. It all started when John bought an Akai 2 track reel to reel tape machine an we used to our songs on that using the 'SOUND ON SOUND' technique of adding another track ON TOP of the previous. Then we bought a Tascam 4 track cassette recorder.
Lyric: NOW you have my attention, Tascam, my dad’s home was packed with Tascam recorders, they are still the best in my book.
GAZ: Then an 8 track Fostex 1/4" tape machine (which I still have!) which we recorded most of the Laurels demo's. At one of the premises where I had my studio, a fire broke out in the next office and fire damaged all my equipment. Fortunately I was insured and bought a ROLAND VS 1680 DAW. I still use this as I find it very easy and quick to get instant results. AND it never crashes!!
Lyric: Now there's a technical advance. Something that does not crash and burn...
GAZ: I’ve just started recording bands live at THE DONKEY - bought another Roland. But this time the 18 track version. It means I can midi them together and have 16 inputs (they each have 8 inputs) - I still use a Yamaha SPX90 external effects unit as well as a Behringer compressor (not very Hi tech but suits my purpose). I use a AKG 300b mic for most things as well as the usual SM58's. I have HHB Active 8 monitors (I think that’s what they’re called! The purple speaker cones!)Its really only a home demo studio but it serves me well. I have just crossed over from years of using a PC to buying MacBook Pro laptop. And I will never use a PC again!! Why do we put up with all the time consuming rubbish that Widows throws at us?? Macs work. With little or no hassle. And there’s a nice little camera on the lid for handy Skyping!
Lyric: Ditto on the laptop. I’ve burned through five home PC's. I detest telephones, but Skype’s so entertaining!! I still marvel that we can speak with people anywhere in the world sitting at a computer with a mic. Now you and Gaz are settled down and happily married family men...ironically, you were both 'with child' in tandem, what a strange coincidence! I should imagine that your children have musical inclinations?
JOHN: All our progeny are involved in music – it's like one large Partridge Family, Osmonds, or Jackson 5!!! Both my kids are guitarists - My youngest son Nile, and Gaz’s son Jordan are in a young band called 'M48', they write really infectious pop songs and have a great energy live. Jordan has just been featured on the BBC series “The Choir” and they have already been played on radio and have recorded a number of their compositions. My eldest son Rhett is also in a gigging band called 'Burnin' Paradise' – they are just recording their first album – they are very loud ! Gaz's eldest son Peri plays drums, is a part of a gigging music collective and is also a sound technician. We may yet get our swimming pools!
Lyric: What a riot! Isn't it marvelous how the children take care of the parents in the end?!! Gaz?
GAZ: Yeah, me and John both have grown - ish up kids. My eldest lad, Peri 21,is a fine drummer with Leicester band SOURPUS (www.myspace.com/sourpus) and also a workshop leader teaching kids music technology and production. My youngest, Jordan 15, sings with John’s son Nile in a great band called M48, www.myspace.co/m48music They write their own material and Jordan is lead singer/front man (takes after his dad). I’m bound to be slightly biased but i genuinely think they will go far. They are getting great reactions at all their gigs and have had some good Industry feedback already. That'll be my pension sorted out I hope ;-)
Lyric: John, naturally I want everyone to read your book, but do share in a few words for the struggling artists out there what it does take in your opinion to really make it, in this world of music-sharing and Internet ‘s endless methods to reach hundreds of millions--is it really ’all that’ to be signed to a major, do you feel that it is more realistic that one can retain artistic control if one self-produces a CD or goes with an Independent label??
JOHN: My advice would be just to keep on going. Right through my time in pop sometimes it has been difficult to stay focused and keep plugging away through adversity. There were plenty of desolate lows. As I said in the book, the music business consists of 90% lows and 10% highs. Years ago Gaz and I asked Rod Stewart's guitarist Jim Cregan for his advice on how to achieve success in the pop world. He said , 'Practise like f**k!'........it was blunt - but true. When we were signed to Indie label Albion records, we felt we had more artistic control because we were on first name terms with everyone that worked there. While we were at Warner Brothers Records there were people working on the future of the band that we'd never even met!
Lyric: My mother was associate A & R for Warner Brothers Records with Dave Hassinger in the swingin' 60's. Things were so very different then...
JOHN: True. If you are really into music, there can be no better way of expressing yourself, than to play and write. The downside, not earning enough, to keep it going. When we were touring with 'Culture Club', playing to packed halls, the Swinging Laurels were on £50 a night!! When we signed a £400,000 deal with the mighty Warner Bros in 1982, we were on a £40 a week retainer. It is only long term, sustained success that pays good financial dividends, and being signed to a major label does not guarantee success. The pop world is littered with talented people that should have but never 'made it'. Of course, it is much easier now, with the advances of technology for any aspiring musician to record and promote their music, but there will be some point when they have to 'get into bed' with the establishment to make things happen. Whether it is promotion or distribution, the big boys still hold all the cards.
Lyric: If you’re not born with talent, or even if you are, you cannot be lackadaisical about your music. So many bands today are. “We look great, therefore we are great”….Gaz, your thoughts?
GAZ: As we know, the music Industry is rapidly changing and what was considered to be the 'done thing' to do even a year or so ago now has all changed. At the moment it's gig gig gig!! Build up a good solid fan base and be the best. Work on songs and live presentation. Record CD’s to the best standard and sell them at gigs or give them away. Let people know you exist on all levels. Use myspace, Facebook and whatever free means of communication is open to you. Marketing and promotion - its always been the case but now its free and easy for everyone to do. Use it all. The bottom line, as its always been, is that it has to be good!
Lyric: Its been more than a pleasure, both of you have given so much to the world of music, and to the ‘entitlement era’ I say, go out there and work your asses off and it might be worth it.
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